At The Two Puddings
Shirley & Eddie Johnson on their first day behind the bar in 1962
Through four decades, from 1962 until 2000, Eddie Johnson was landlord of the celebrated Two Puddings in Stratford, becoming London’s longest serving licensee in the process and witnessing a transformation in the East End. When Eddie took it on, the Two Puddings was the most notorious pub in the area, known locally as the Butcher’s Shop on account of the amount of blood spilt. Yet he established the Puddings as a prime destination, opening Britain’s first disco and presenting a distinguished roll call of musicians including The Who – though the pub never quite shook off its violent notoriety.
“I’ve had a lot of blows,” Eddie confided to me with a crooked grin, his eyes glinting enigmatically. Even at eighty, Eddie retains a powerful and charismatic demeanour – very tall, still limber and tanned with thick white hair. Of the old East End, yet confident to carry himself in any company, Eddie admitted to me he was the first from his side of town to make it into Peter Langan’s Brasserie in Stratton St, mixing with a very different clientele from that in Stratford Broadway. It was indicative of the possibility of class mobility at the time, and there were plenty from the West End who were persuaded to take the trip east and experience the vibrant culture on offer at the Puddings.
“I came from the Old Ford Rd and I suppose you’d refer to it as a slum by today’s standards, but I never thought that because I had a happy childhood, even if we had an outside toilet and went to the bath house each week. The public library was heaven to me, all polished wood and brass, and I got a great love of schoolboys’ adventure stories which made me wish I could go to public school though, of course, I’d have hated it if I did. After I got married and had a son and then another, I had a number of dead end jobs. When I came out of the army, I became involved with a rough crowd. I worked with my brother Kenny organising dances. I was a bit of a hooligan and I got stabbed in a dance hall. But then I found a job as a Tally-clerk in the docks and became involved with the Blue Union – the skilled workers and stevedores. I was the Tally-clerk on Jack Dash’s strike committee. I loved it down there and, though I didn’t make a lot of money, I didn’t care because I loved the freedom. We could more or less do what we wanted.
The licensee of the Two Puddings got in trouble with the police, so Kenny and I bought the lease because we were frightened of losing the dance hall. Since my brother couldn’t hold the licence owing to an earlier court case, I had to take it. Now I didn’t fancy managing a pub and I had been to the Old Bailey for GBH, so I had to be upfront with the police in Stratford but they were horrible. They said,‘We’ve seen you driving around in a flash car,’ and I said, ‘I’l tell you where you can stick your licence!’ But this butcher, Eddie Downes, a huge fat man with a completely bald head who looked like a cartoon butcher, he told me not to worry. He had a reputation as a grass and he was always boasting about his connections to the police. ‘You’ll still get your meat from me?’ he asked, and three months later we were granted a licence.
We moved into the Puddings and after the opening night, I said, ‘I can’t stand this,’ and then I stayed forty years. I used to come downstairs on a Friday night and look around hoping there weren’t going to be any fights and I’d get all tensed up, but after a few light ales I’d be happy as a sandboy. The place would be packed and we’d be serving beer in wet glasses – it was fairly clean and people didn’t mind. We sold four hundred dozen light ales in a week, nowadays a pub is lucky to sell two dozen. We worked six nights a week plus a fortnight holiday a year and, on Wednesdays, my wife and I used to go up to the West End for a night out – but after forty years, it was tough.
At the end of the sixties, they knocked down a lot of buildings and did a redevelopment in Stratford. We lost all our local trade and the immigrants that came to live there didn’t have a culture of drinking, but we still had our music crowd. It was ear-splitting music really and we were the first pub to have UV. We called the club the Devil’s Kitchen and got a licence till two in the morning, and it was ever so popular. People came from far and wide.”
At the end of the last century, changes in the law required breweries to sell off many of their pubs and the Two Puddings changed hands, resulting in a controversy over discounts offered to publicans and a court case that saw Eddie Johnson thrown out of his job. Today, he lives peacefully in Suffolk and has organised his stories into an eloquent memoir. It is the outcome of lifetime’s fascination with literature that began with a passion for schoolboy adventures and led Eddie to read the great novelists during his hours of employment in the London Docks. His first story was printed in The Tally-Clerk at that time, and in recent years Eddie famously wrote frequent letters to The Independent. But now he has realised his ambition to become a writer with the publication of “Tales from the Two Puddings,” and I recommend it to you.
Eddie aged nine, 1941.
Eddie when he worked in the docks.
Early Saturday morning and preparing to open. Eddie behind the bar and George the potman to his right.
Old George the potman.
Shirley Johnson with Rose Doughty, the famous wise-cracking barmaid.
Eddie’s sister Doreen (second left) and friends heading upstairs to the Devil’s Kitchen, above the Puddings (photograph by Alf Shead)
Eddie and his brother Kenny with their beloved Uncle John in the Puddings.
Saturday night in the Puddings.
Joe and Sue, Eddie’s father-in-law and mother-in-law, enjoying a Saturday night in the Puddings.
Eddie Johnson
Copies of Eddie Johnson’s lively memoir TALES FROM THE TWO PUDDINGS are available from www.51statepress.co.uk
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Fabulous piece of pub history. Really enjoyed reading it. Very struck by how smart everyone was for Saturday nights – hard to believe all the blood spilt too! Nicola
I was the lead singer of The Beat Syndicate in the 60’s. We played in all the local venues in and around East London, Leyton Baths, Coronation Gardens, Stratford Town Hall and the Two Puddings as well as venues all over the country.
The Two Puddings was a great venue for us, the atmosphere was electric. The last gig we did there was with Sean Buckley and the Breadcrumbs and the owners gave them a great send off that night as they were going off to appear on Ready Steady Go. If my diary is correct that was Friday the 2nd October 1964.
For the past few years I have been trying to trace some memrobillia of that year i.e. posters or flyers with my group listed. If anyone out there knows where I could purchase something like this or copies of, I would be extremely grateful to hear from them.
I am pleased that the owners have given us back some history of our youthful past, I shall purchase the book.
Kind Regards
John Maskell
I was lead singer with The Beat Syndicate, we played the Two Puddings a few times, what a great gig. The last time we played there was with Sean Buckley & the Breadcrumbs they had a great send off as they were appearing on Ready Steady Go the following week, the atmosphere there was electric. According to my diary that was Friday the 2nd October 1964.
Wasn’t the lead singer of “the The” a Johnson too? Related to the Puddings family?
Yes Matt of The The is Eddies son. Lovely family.
Reply to David s question.
Loved the book almost as much as I loved the pub – the puddings and the Lotus were great venues and the Johnson brothers were a class act.
Used to love The Two Puddings and Eddies other pub The Crown in Loughton. Many great nights with, live music and friends.
I remember the ‘Puddings’ well from about 1964. Our favourite haunt!
Bought the book in the hope that an Elizabeth / Lizzie Johnson might be mentioned (i’ve been researching my family tree for years) – i know she was born in 1913 and lived in that area. Hope someone can help .I thoroughly enjoyed the book,read it in one go and will be on the look out for any further memoirs .Incidentally my father was also a publican in the East End.
Formerly
Grace Johnson
loved the puddings we went every friday night drank down stairs then went upstairs to devils kitchen have great memories.hated those uv lights showed all white bits as if you had dandruff.there was a photoghrofer who took photos of us i have them on my wall now nostalgic black and white shame it closed.micky was my landlord 3 of us shared a victorion house in romford road….£18 a week back in the 1970 tees.
Researching family history. My father in law David Leslie Johnson was born in Stratford in 1925/6 his family too were publicans and his fathers name was David too, he had a brother Bernard and sister Veronica. Anyone have any information that would be helpful?
Would anyone who remembers the Puddings be interested in taking part in a documentary
that is being made about it ? you can contact me on carol.price5@btinternet.com with your
email address and Iwill pass it on to the person who is making it .
Carol.
Hi,
I am trying to make make contact with Eddie Johnson, does anybody have a contact email address for him or could pass my email address on to him just-me-lee@live.co.uk
Best Regards
Lee Mansworth
Just ordering the book. In the years probably between 1968 and 1971 used to go to the 2 puddings with my two friends every week! Upstairs in the devils kitchen we danced all night and made loads of friends. We eventually ended up doing some dj sessions in the pub . Kenny knew Rod Stewart and gave us his first LP to play. I used to run to the loo when playing Maggie May as it was such a long track! Once the pub closed for the night we used to get to the Lotus at Forest Gate as quickly as we could so we could serve drinks there. Our memories of theses times are great.
i just found this site brought back some good memories
of Eddie Shirley with my parents. i am going to buy the book now 🙂
I thought you may be interested in this.
Carol.
BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND
Ken Johnson Promotions Proudly Present:
”The Boys are Back in Town”
SATURDAY 25th JANUARY 2014
Stratford Town Hall, London, E15 4BQ
Swinging 60’s Live music from your favourite Bands of the time including all the smash hits of the era!
The famous Two Puddings & Lotus ballroom reunite to bring you the night you never forgot: A nostalgic evening of non-stop dancing to your favourite tracks, by your favourite acts of the time
Featuring
”The Falkons” “This Group of Mine”
”Sean Buckley & The Breadcrumbs”
“Saxons” & “Joe Williams & The Teens”
Plus Surprise Special guests & DJs
Bring your daughters, sons & younger ones and show them how you got down at your old stomping ground as we take you back to the 60’s with records by mega artists such as: The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Chuck Berry & Early Elvis
Age: Over 18s
Dress: As you are – Italian Bum Freezers, Teddy Boys & Swing time Drapes encouraged.
Admission: £20 theboysarebackintown.eventbrite.co.uk
Earlybird: Call 07982855053
This throwback 60s night of nostalgia is a strictly one off event with limited availability so book now to avoid disappointment, this event is not to be missed!
Licensed Bar – Non Stop Dancing – 8pm – 1am
here is a bit more about the people in the bands
To celebrate the success of Eddie Johnson’s book “Tales from the Two Puddings” and impending documentary film, Ken Johnson proudly
presents, by public demand, a night to remember with 60s groups who packed the Two Puddings and Lotus Ballroom every night, reunited once again.
There were very many fantastic music pubs in East London, but it is generally accepted that The Puddings was and remains part of Londons 60s musical culture.
Among many appearing on the night :-
Mick Clarke. Bass, Joe and the Teens, The Tremeloes, now The Rubettes
Rick Westwood. Guitar, Joe and the Teens, Tony Rivers and the Castaways and The Tremeloes
Pete Dunton. Drummer, The Falkons. The Gun (Race with the Devil), T2,(It’ll all Work in Boomland) .
Joe Williams, Vocals/percussion. Joe and the Teens. Harmony Grass, Capability Brown.
Sean Buckley. Sean Buckley and the Breadcrumbs Actor, Game of Thrones, The Fifth Element, Les Miserable …..
and many others, including iconic East London groups The Saxons and the sweet harmony sounds of This Group of Mine —
__________________________________
I played lead with the Exiles in the 60s and we allways enjoyed the atmosphere at the Puds and of course the Alice. We played a gig with the Rocking Berrys and told Eddy how great they were so he promptly booked them at the Alice and being a proper gent gave us the support role. Enjoyed the book and the memories Nice to hear Shaun Buckley is still rocking we had a mutual admiration going on between our bands. Happy days happy memories. Congratulations Eddy on an exellent piece of local social history.
Kind Regards
Alan Sharp
Hello Alan,
When you say the Alice do you mean the Lotus run by Eddie’s
brother Kenny ?. I remember seeing the rocking berries .
The dance on the 25th went really well there was around 300 people
and quite a lot of them were dancing most of the night .
Kenny is thinking of having another one in June/ July maybe
you should try to come , Roy Skinner from This group of mine
came all the way from his home in Australia for the one night stand .
Carol.
Hello Carol
Yes it was the Lotus Ballroom by the Princess Alice pub. Kenny booked the Rocking Berrys once a month for four months and we did the support. The Exiles came from Hainault as did many other hard working local bands and Eddy and Kenny gave a lot of hopefulls a chance to strut their stuff, some went on to greater things like Tony Rivers and Shaun Buckleyetc I am still in touch with the original members Jeff Mathews Bassist still playes with a Shadows tribute band in Broadstairs and Jeff Pirie became an actor appearing with Kicky Dee in Blood Brothers and many parts in Soaps. Our drummer Pete Dunton is known to you and played on the 25th gig. they say that nostalgia is not what it used to be but those where the greatest times with treasured memories. I will keep a check on my emails for further gigs it would be a great trip down memory lane. Best wishes Alan
Hello Alan ,
The link below shows a couple of the groups at the dance on
youtube , I didnt go but I know that everyone really enjoyed it
and I think it would be great if you could go , I will let Eddie
and Kenny know that I have spoken to you , did you know Tom the
potman, cellarman at the puddings ? I think he danced all night
as you say those really were the greatest times . The fella who
is making the documentary about the puddings and those times was
at the dance and will probably be at the next one so if you fancy
being part of that and talking about those times let me know.
Speak to you soon .
Carol.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=stratford+townhall+youtube&qpvt=stratford+townhall+youtube&FORM=VQFRML
Alan
Just a thought ,
I dont know if my email address shows or if I have put it before
but its carol.price5@btinternet.com perhaps you can send yours so
that I can let you know direct of any dances etc. I have John Daltons
of this group of mine .
Carol.
Just had an email from Eddie ,Kenny has booked Stratford Town hall
for Saturday the 28th of June for another Boys are Back in Town
as the last one was such a success. I will post more details when I get them.
Carol.
Hi Carol, I played with Joe and The Teens on 25th Jan at Stratford Town Hall.
We all had a great time and met up with Reg Wheal who ran us around in his van.He told me he put off his wedding to buy the van! He was 23 then he’s now 74 and that’s the first time I’ve seen him since the 60’s.
Please try to keep us informed of progress towards the next one I’m sure we would all love to play again .
Cheers, Allan
Hi Alan,
Its lovely hearing peoples stories of how they have met up with people they knew in the 60s because of the dance at Stratford town hall .
I know the plan is to have all of the groups back again so I am sure someone will be in touch soon . I will put everything on this site as soon as I get it but I know you will also be told through the groups, the town hall is booked that I know so its getting everything sorted out from there.
Nice talking to you .
Carol.
Hi Carol
I used to drive Sean and the boys back in the early days and Friday nights at the puddings was one of their regular bookings. Also playing at the Stratford Town Hall quite a bit back then.
The January show really brought it all back and to see so many of the old faces was wonderful, a fantastic night so let’s hope it does indeed come off again in June.
You probably saw a couple of the poems I wrote for, and about the night, it really got me inspired and although I do write quite a lot, just recently I seem to be living back in those days with everything that I write, those were indeed just the best of times.
Good luck with the 28th of June
All the best Terry B
Hi Terry,
no I didnt see any of your peoms Terry where are they?
I write quite a bit as well and also write about when I was a
teenager , but I write as if I am a teenager and am writing it
in the 50s/60s they were great times and everyone seems to be happy
when reliving them .I used to serve the soft drinks on the landing in the town hall on a Sunday, and sometimes work in the cloakroom upstairs in the Puddings in later years , most of all I used to go
to the puddings and the Lotus to dance , I also worked behind the bar
in the puddings(catering end)during the day for 23 years .
I spoke to Kenny last week , I know the hall is booked and as
soon as I have any more news I will put it on here.
Carol.
I originally sent an email attachment to Kevin Sheehan, the lead guitarist with the Breadcrumbs as he asked me for a copy of the first one I did about January, and The Boys are back in Town. After that great night I did another one which was called A night to Remember I believe he then put the first one on his Facebook site but if you can’t find it, if you drop me an email I’ll send you a copy of both of them
Hi Terry ,
no I havent seen them .”I dont do facebook”.
My email address is carol.price5@btinternet.com
I hope that comes out in the message .
Carol
Interesting to see a comment from Jenny Godlonton, I remember her Mum and Dad, Ruby & John very well, had some nice times with them, her Dad used to come to the Crown, Loughton on a Friday night and have a drink with me. A lovely couple.
Eddie J
For those people interested in the dance at Stratford Town hall .
The dance in January was so popular Kenny is holding another one
some details are below.
Carol
The Boys are back in Town 2
Saturday 28th June 2014
Swinging 60s live music from your favourite bands of the time
including all the smash hits of the era .
The famous Two Puddings and Lotus Ballroom reunite
yet again for one more nostalgic evening of non stop Dancing
to your favourite tracks, by your favourite acts of the time.
Featuring
The Falkons, Sean Buckley & the breadcrumbs, Joe Williams &
the teens, The Saxons, With special Guest Roy Skinner & This group of Mine.
plus dance music DJs
Bands may be subject to change.
Admission £25 via http://kennyjohnson2p.wix.com/theboysarebackintown
earlybird:£20 before 15th May as above
call 07982855053 to reserve and pay by cheque and for more info.
As it said on the last advert for the Dance Bands were subject to change well Joe and the Teens will not be playing this time but everything else will be the same as advertised .
also something else that be of might interest .
Eddies younger son Gerard has a film at the Edinburgh festival and his cousin Peter
plays the main character see article below.
http://www.screendaily.com/news/hyena-to-open-edinburgh/5071549.article?referrer=RSS&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=1%26WT.tsrc%3Dtwitter%26WT.mc_id%3Dtwitter_twitterfeed_latestnews
I was a DJ at the Two Puds for a while way back in the late 60’s….although to be fair I can’t remember the exact date. The regular DJ was a guy called Ginger…never knew his real name but we used to work for the same agent and I also did the Leyton Baths. Anyone remember Ginger ???
Hello Andy,
Have you thought about going to the dance at the Town Hall on the 28th June?
I am sure there will be plenty of other people there that will remember Ginger.
Carol
Iv just read finished reading “Tales from the two puddings” the memories just came flooding back, i used to work next door to the puddings in an employment agency called ” Girl Friday ” with my friend Janet , we used to go to puds and then the Lotus every Friday night, how i ever drove from one to the other and never get stopped is beyond me, we had smashing sandwiches and lunches each day from “next door ” Eddie you made me laugh and cry reading your book, we are coming down to see you all on the 28th, i cant wait.
We now live in South Yorkshire the peak district, just outside Sheffield, but how i miss the east end, i was born in Hackney, but it would be impossible to live in London now with the price of houses, and i just cant believe that Bethnal Green and Hackney and Shorditch is so trendy these days, !!!!! how times change.
See you all soon. Judy
Judy.
Hello Judy
What years did you go into the pub for your lunch ? I worked at the catering end
from 1977 until the pub closed in 2000 . So glad you are going to the dance .
Did you know or work with a Janet Wood in the agency ?.
Carol.
Just noticed the name Janet in your post so I guess thats the friend you are coming with
all the way from South Yorkshire . I will let Eddie know about your post on here
Carol
Hi Carol, yes Janet Wood is my oldest and best friend we have been friends now for 45 years, and her gorgeous daughter Joanna, is our god daughter, i think Jo is coming as well, Janet and i will be bringing our husbands with us, Janet meet her husband John in the puddings, iv lost count of the times Janet and i rem anise about the old times, we could probably write a book about some of the things we got up to, however i doubt that it would get published, and what seems really funny to us, may not seem at all funny to anybody else. so maybe with hindsight, we will leave it in our memories . one other thing, my amazing husband comes from Sheffield, when we first meet in 1977, i dragged him along to the Lotus, he couldn’t see what i had been raving on about, so that was the first and last visit we made together however he is really looking forward to the 28th and so am i. so hope to see you there.
judy
Hello Judy,
I passed your message on to Eddie and he said he would post a message back on
this site , its lovely that you are all going and I am sure you will all have a great time .
I spoke to Janet by email a couple of months ago ( my email address is on this site ).
Have a good time and show the young uns what its all about .
Carol.
Hi Judy,
nice to hear such nice things about the old pub, thanks very much, I feel flattered.
Look forward to seeing you on the 28th I’m sure Peter and Kaye will as well.
Come up and say hallo it’ll be lovely to see you.
Bless and good luck,
Eddie Johnson,
The landlords son is Matt Johnson of the band “The The” …. Obviously the pubs musical links forged Matts talent.
I came about this page from listening to The The songs on spotify what I used to be into in the 80s whilst hanging about in Chingford where I grew up (I’m 42 now) On spotify I clicked on the thes’s biography expecting the band to be from somewhere far away but was pleased and surprised to find out its east London roots . It’s lovely to read the nostalgic story’s of an east end pub with a landlord and lady that committed so much to it for such a long time. I love a good boozer. Sadly I don’t know of any Good’ns in Stratford no more? I like a craft ale these days and that’s why I go to pubs. Not for the social aspect but for the beer. To me the Americans have created a micro brewery pale ale revolution all the way from sunny California that we’ve re-created and transformed old boozers with no soul. Where I’d love to drink is in a pub run by a modern day Eddie Johnson who serves nothing but craft beer and a sweet sherry for the missus. Lovley
What an excellent Book, couldn’t put it down, so many lovely memories of the Devils Kithcen
On a Friday night in 1965/66. I fell in love dancing to the wonderful music, that was my first experience of ultra violet light, my friends and I loved it there, Friday was the highlight of our week, i would get the train from Hackney to Stratford with my best buddies, and if we were lucky got a lift homes afterwards, (which we did most weeks).
Thank you so much for the WONDERFUL memories
Eddie/Kenny cast your mind back to 1962 the Jive dive the 2 Puddings the Lotus to 2015 where did we all go wrong X
As the documentary about the book should be released soon I thought I would
put the facebook page about it
http://www.facebook.com/TwoPuddingsFilm
For those that are interested in the documentary re : Tales from the two Puddings
there is an article in this weeks Newham recorder or you can copy and paste the address below
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/heritage/director_of_new_film_tells_tales_from_the_two_puddings_1_4577213
Bernie our rent collector,started the first ever disco upstairs ,I was his little helper!!!
Are you talking about Bernie the DJ who had a son Roger ?
He worked for Kenny as a DJ upstairs in the Puddings in the late 50s early 60s
when it was the Big Beat club ( the first disco ) I used to go there .
yes,he was just starting out there ,and he asked my mum if I could help him,she let me go because she knew him and Iwas glad because she wouldn’t let me go to the local dance places until Iwas older with my friend carole who she trusted !!
Thank you Eddie for replying to my comment I have only just seen this ,hope you are well,my dad died 6years ago but he would have loved this jenny.
We are keen to record conversations with anyone with memories of music in East London. To form a one-off documentary or (at this rate) a series of radio programmes for East London Radio
Lets share our memories
Please get in touch ian@eastlondonradio.org.uk
Thanks
Another memory of The Two Puddings.
My Mum Sylvia Moss was living and working in The Two Puddings in the 1940 era. My Dad Herbert Dartford was from Manor Road West Ham and was in The Royal Navy. He met my Mum when drinking in The Two Puddings when on leave. They married by Special Licence on 29 th April 1942 when he was on leave from the Navy.
My parents are both deceased.
A long time ago but may be of interest.
This message is for Carol, my mum used to work at the Two Puddings when I was a kid on the lunches, her name was Marilyn Chamberlain, it would have been in the 70’s, I’m sure I remember you, as I spent a few days up in the kitchen in school holidays I think, I only looked up the Two Pudding because Harry Rednapp mentioned it on I’m a celebrity get me out of here tonight, I had forgotten it existed until he jogged my memory
Hello Mandy ,
Yes I worked with your mum for a while on the lunches and also kept in touch by christmas card and a letter in the card each year after mum left but when I didnt receive a card I phoned to see if mum was alright as I know she had been ill but the phone line was no longer connected .
Carol
Hello Carol
Sadly mum passed away on 24/06/2017, she was at home with all of us by her side, I miss her terribly
Hello Mandy ,
I am so sorry to hear that , I did think the worst when there was no Christmas card because mum never failed to send one with an up date on how things were going . I am glad you were all there . I am sure you do miss her very much . but take good care of one another .
Carol
I believe my mum used to work behind the bar in the fifties and my dad used to drink in there, Ted & Joan Reader. Can anyone remember them ??
known all over london the puddens some r ascals used to get in there in the 60s
I lived in Walthamstow and in 1984 I had my stag night in The Two Puddings. They stayed open late and had great staff. One of my mates was a biker. He turned in leathers and with a chain around his body. He parked his Harley on the pavement, right outside the entrance and then the bouncer wouldn’t let him in. It took some friendly persuasion and a fiver to change his mind. We had such a great night that my best man had his stag night there a couple of months later.
Just watched Jools Holland and he had The The singer on Matt Johnson, he was talking about growing up in the two puddings. Was really interesting listening to him talking about all the different bands that played there and how it influenced him to go into music, so, I googled it and ended up here! The article about the two puddings is fascinating. X