Billy Frost, The Krays’ Driver
After my conversation with Lenny Hamilton, the jewel thief, I went back on another afternoon to the Carpenters Arms in Cheshire St (the pub that once belonged to the Kray twins) to meet Billy Frost who was Ronnie and Reggie Kray’s driver. I recognised him at once by his pinstripe suit, which must be the preferred uniform for senior reprobates and, sure enough, he asked for a double Corvoisier and lemonade too, exactly as Lenny had done.
Already, Billy had discovered through the grapevine that I had been consorting with Lenny, so he went straight for the jugular, challenging me,“You’ve been talking with Lenny, haven’t you? “ I could not deny it, so Billy put me straight, “Lenny’s very prejudiced, just because Ronnie burnt him a bit with a poker, but the twins, they could be very kind to a lot of people – like old people and kids – and they did a lot of charitable work.” Then Billy clarified his statement, for the sake of a balanced argument, “Obviously, they could be very nasty too, if you got on the wrong side of them.”
Vividly outlining the full extent of his experience, “I knew them over a period of twenty years from when they were very young boxers, and Ronnie hit the referee and quit the boxing club.” Billy said, including an inconsequential detail that appeared entirely characteristic of his former employer, before setting out a lively account of his own conscientiously thorough apprenticeship in crime.
“When I was young I used to go to a dance hall in Tottenham called the Royal and that’s where I first met Ronnie and Reggie. Everyone used to go there each weekend. That’s when Ronnie got his first conviction – he beat up a fellow with a chain off a machine for manufacturing furniture (there were a lot of furniture factories in Bethnal Green at the time). When I met him I was on the run from the army. Saturday night at the Royal was the top night, people came from all over and we used to hang around the dance floor.
Then I lost touch with them because I had to go back to the army and I deserted again and I got caught stealing a truck load of metal and I got sent to borstal and from borstal I went back to the army and then I was arrested for stealing a car. I was on a licence from borstal and after I done my prison sentence they revoked my licence from borstal and I done a further eleven months.
When I come out, I was in the 181 Club in Gerrard St in the West End where I met Charlie Kray by chance. I asked him how Ronnie and Reggie were, and he said they were working with Jack Scott and Billy Hill. Later, I met the twins in the West End and they told me they didn’t want to be used by Jack and Billy any more and they were going out on their own. And that’s what they did.
I used to be with them. And I got arrested for something I actually never did! I was trying to help someone out, selling a bit of gear – cigarettes which came from Lee Green in South London. And then, mysteriously, the police found the same red glass substance in my trouser turn-ups from the rear of a Wolsey car that was used to ram the shop the cigarettes came from. It was a fellow called Terry Barnes who pleaded guilty to it, but I was found guilty and I got two years. When I came out, I caught up with Ronnie and Reggie again, by then they were involved in the race tracks, protection rackets and all that.”
Once he had dictated thus far, I had acquired a good sense of the general picture and was in awe of Billy’s ability to spin a sentence too. Though occasionally, to my alarm, he became a little impatient when I didn’t quite follow his drift. There was an attractive young couple at the next table who were curious of my charismatic guest speaking in such animated fashion. When they went out to the garden to have a smoke, leaving all their valuables, the young woman leaned across sweetly, asking Billy “Would you mind watching our things?” I was dumbstruck at the irony, thinking, “If only you knew…”
But now that Billy had declared himself to me, fair and square, it was time for me to get him another Corvoisier and lemonade before he settled down to recount the story of the murder of Georgie Cornell – whom Lenny Hamilton described to me as “the hardest man on the cobbles.”
“The argument was over a fellow named Mickey Morris. Georgie Cornell told Nicky’s mum, May, that Ronnie was after Mickey and ‘You know he’s a fat pouf,’ and this got back to Ronnie and Ronnie was furious. He had word with Georgie about it, but then Georgie started telling other people, ignoring Ronnie.
One night, I drove Ronnie & Reggie to The Stork Club in Swallow St. When they got inside , Georgie Cornell was sitting at a table on his own. Reggie went over and spoke to Georgie, but Ronnie wouldn’t go and sit with him (I never knew what it was really about at the time). Me and Ronnie sat at another table opposite and we got a couple of drinks. Ronnie was mumbling but he was incoherent and I couldn’t hear a word he said. Then we left The Stork Club after thirty minutes and went back to The Grave Maurice in Whitechapel. As we were driving back, they never said a word to each other, Ronnie and Reggie, and when we got into The Grave Maurice, they sat on their own and had a private conversation.
The day that Ronnie shot Georgie I had a day off. It was about a week later, when Ronnie and Scotch Jack were driving round to the widow’s pub in Bethnal Green, Ronnie saw Georgie Cornell’s car parked outside The Blind Beggar in Whitechapel High St. And he told Scotch Jack to turn round and go to the Green Dragon where someone was keeping a gun for him. Then Ronnie walked into The Blind Beggar and shot Georgie Cornell in the head.
Afterwards, I was present when Ronnie said ‘Has anyone got Mickey Morris’ phone number? Will you tell him to come over, I want to give him a nightcap?’ Nicky came over and I personally poured him out a gin and tonic. The next thing I knew, Ronnie punched Mickey in the face. And Mickey said, ‘I thought you was my friend, Ronnie?’ Reggie got hold of him and I expected he was going to let him go, but instead Reggie pushed Mickey into a storeroom. Then Ronnie got Mickey in a headlock and Reggie pulled out a big hunting knife and pushed it straight through Mickey’s arm. Ronnie said to Reggie, ‘Do it properly, stick it up his fucking guts!‘ Mickey howled when the knife went through his arm.
I said to Reggie, ‘Look, there’s people on the balcony opposite looking over and there’s people in the bar who can hear, they’re wondering what’s going on.’ I wanted to save the guy, I liked him, he was a nice boy. I said, ‘Come into the bathroom, Mickey, and I’ll do you up in some towels,’ but he was scared because he was bleeding buckets. I couldn’t take him to the London Hospital myself, in case the police got involved, because I had a warrant out for my arrest. Another member took him to the hospital.
A couple of days later, I was driving along the Lea Bridge Rd and Ronnie asked me to stop at Mickey Morris’ house and he said to Mickey, ‘Next time, it’ll be done properly.'”
Strangely, Billy appeared not to comprehend Mickey Morris’ reluctance to enter the bathroom. I thought of asking Billy if, in retrospect, he thought his logic for not taking Mickey Morris to the London Hospital was admirable but it was a redundant question, so instead I asked Billy if he was ever scared of Ronnie and Reggie.“Once I stayed the night at their house in Vallance Rd and I fell asleep on Reggie’s bed, and I woke to find him standing over me with a big Wilkinson’s sword that he had.” he replied, enacting the fierce gesture of raising the sword with the practised conviction of a Shakespearean actor.
As someone with an aversion to violence, I barely knew how to react to Billy’s stories and I think he could read it in my face at that moment, because he admitted quietly with a gentle smile, “They were good times, though personally I didn’t like all the violence, but if you’re going to do protection and be a villain then it comes naturally.” – as if it was the most normal thing in the world.
Billy was on his third Corvoisier and lemonade, and I was beginning to feel uncomfortable. He was polite and he was personable, and it was decent of him to grant me an interview but, considering what he had told me, I could not but wonder what there was that did not bear telling. I respect Billy greatly for his nerve – having the guts to survive the viper’s nest – living through so much brutality to reach this current point of benign equilibrium. Equally, I can never know whether those experiences induced in Billy a certain degree of acceptance of the long pitiful catalogue of cruelty that was inflicted by his employers, the psychopathic twins Ronnie and Reggie Kray. It is a private question for Billy to reconcile with his conscience and we shall not be party to it.
I left Billy Frost in conversation with the young couple from the next table who were captivated by his charms. Running back in the dusk, through the rainy streets, thankful to arrive at the safety of my house in Spitalfields, the afternoon’s experience grew strangely familiar in my mind. It touched a chord of familiar unease, and I realised that I could now better appreciate Pip’s mixed emotions when he met the enigmatically fearsome convict Abel Magwitch in those brilliant early terrifying chapters of Great Expectations.
You evoke a whole world in a few short words. Superb interview. Just superb.
Everyone else is too scared to comment!
face of evil
Fascinating and an excellent interview
hmm, i must think about writing down all the stories my taxi-driving husband comes home with on a daily basis…
The dance hall mentioned was called “The Royal”not the The Regal It was in Tottenham High Road N.17. right opposite Tottenham Police Station.
Billy Frost is one of the last true “gentleman” villians, and have spent many an hour listening to tales of when he was with the Firm, along with my father..Eric Mason.
I am Bill’s niece and you perfectly capture his charm and the way he can captivate you in a conversation. Whoever the anonymous writer who said he was the “face of evil” I would ask them to keep such comments to themselves, as they have never met Billy and cannot know him merely on the basis of this interview.
hi,could anyone tell me if roy parker[from bradford west yorks,but went to london in late 50’s early 60’s]knew one or both kray twins,i’m roy’s niece and roy lost contact with his family,i went to his funeral 10/2/2012 and a lady said roy knew the kray twins.i would love to find out more about the uncle i never knew,i’m now 57,roy had a sister audrey who died 3yrs ago.thank you so much for any help.kind reguards diane pell.
Did anyone else read Billy’s bits in an imaginary cockney accent? For some reason the voice in my head standing in for Billy’s was Ray Winston’s!
An excellent piece, although I call issue with the Jeff Mason, there is and never has been a ‘gentleman’ villain. A villain is a villain and thats the truth of it.
had the pleasure of meeting this man in London regardless of the story’s enjoyed a pint and a chat about life in general was a friend of mine that later informed me of who i was sharing the evening with… F it much respect eauston Alabama boy
Old, authentic East End. I wonder who will be the ‘faces’ in the next 50 years?
I had the pleasure of meeting Billy in a Pub!! I will always remember you, what a light hearted soul you were, one of the very best.
Regards
Tracy
Totally fascinating, and wonderfully retold. I love the literary link to Magwitch at the end.
we hear all these stories but how about telling us how most of the so called gangsters was grasses lets have the truth
did you once run the kingsland pub in dalston a few years back?
gosh what an evil sod needs a lesson in respect
hi bill
Bill is one of the most lovely men I’ve met! He is a true gentleman and has a brilliant sense of humour! He is not evil to any sense! Things you do in your youth make you who you are and even if bills done some bad he is in no way “evil” now! Hope your well bill!
Very interesting guy. Me and some workmates sat chating to bill in a pub completely unaware who he was, even when he left he told us his name, to remember it and that it was nice chating. We googled his name the next day and couldnt believe who he was.
So gutted we didnt no siting at the table with him, otherwise we wouldnt of let him leave. We went to that pub 3 times a week for a month hoping he would turn up again, unfortunatly he never did. Will never forget that nite.
Thanks bill.
hi rosie , i agree its not a nice comment, u cant judge anyone just by a interview, u seem like a lovely guy,
It’s worth remembering what these people were. Parasites, leaching off hard working law abiding people. Scum, vermin, cockroaches…whatever you want to call them, the one thing they weren’t is gentlemen.
boo
Billy Frost is a gentleman, so too is Lenny Hamilton. If only you who comment had the chance to know them as real people, only then would you know the truth, but sadly all you have is your perception of the very little that you learn from the media.
I KNOW BILLY HE IS A LOVELY MAN.ALWAYS WELL DRESSED SMART HE IS.RESPECTFUL AND ALWATS POLITE
The grass and the jewellery theft bet ronny was fuck in u while Hindin out for 4 months in a flat u and him u puff whit
Hi, Is Lennie and Billy still alive?
Would love to sit down and listen to the old stories, my Family are from Hoxton, the old Hoxton, not the trendy place it is now, we used to own a scrap yard, not far from Shoreditch Park, my family knew all the faces, would be good to sit down and hear some stories, my Great Grandfather was well know around Hoxton and Bethnal Green, they used to pay him to keep out of the pubs ,coz when he walked in people walked out, his name was White Knobby Clark
The man who had a run in with the twins was Mickey Morris not Nicky. From Riga House in Stepney.
Actually Billy Frost narrated correctly in the video just the written summary on the name is wrong
It wasn’t Nicky it was Mickey Morris , he was my cousin . That account stacks up , but he shot the doorman on their club when he got out of hospital and they didn’t fancy his dad Sammy either .
Hi Damo from what I did hear no Lenny isn’t alive I ain’t sure about billy last I heard he was seriously ill
Billy died last week, been ill for a long while. His funeral is this week
Am sorry to hear that billy has died. He was my mums cousin who she has not seen since she was little. I have always been told he was a lovely person will have to tell her that he has passed away.
I knew Michael “Mickey” Morris and his mother May during the last year of his life 1995/6 and I was interested to read your article but I would like to add a memory of my own. A few months before his death Michael and I had a drink in what was known as ‘Widow’s Pub’ in Bethnal Green, just off Three Colts Lane, where he told me what happened on the night referred to in your interview. Michael’s version of events were the same as Mr Frost described them apart from the reason that Ronnie Kray summoned him there. According to Michael it was for another reason entirely.
Billy’s a genuine guy,no bullshit
I just wondered if Billy ever meet Harry (Henry ) Collins – right hand man of Billy Hill, so I’am told back in the 50’s
I wonder if Billy still keeps in touch with Dickie (Richard Francis) Morgan? Dickie would have to be one of the closest men to the Krays’, and he makes some cameo appearances in several books/movies, but no one ever rights about him? Why is this?
My dad was an amazing man to Vicky you wrote he was your mums cousin why side of the family are you from also please find a way to get in touch with me and to the person who put face of evil as he’s son he was far from it a gentle soul and amazing father and to mark does this man happen to have a huge scar on he’s leg or he lost he’s leg please get in touch also harp girl 09 it wasn’t until I gave permission very recently that there is even more coming out about him really soon
Some trolls on here who think a driver is a face of evil. I’d say we can reserve that for actual evil. Not some young men who wanted to improve their lot in the 60s from a poor upbringing.
Billy Frost was gutless he wrote in his book coshed me, well he is the only one I know in those days that it took him a day to make a cosh to hit me from behind my back, I looked for him to give him a proper SPANKING but after about 18 months a got on with life i found out years later he was hiding as the TwiNS Driver under Ronnie Krays SKIRT.
Hi I’m sure my ex father in law was Billy’s brother, he did speak about him from time to time and his involvement with the krays .Can any body confirm this I would love to know
Hi does anyone remember Jimmy Steptoe I believe he and his wife Greta both worked at the R&R club I am 72 now and have no relatives alive and would love to know more Thanks
Does anyone know Boo Mason, or what became of him? He was my driver/bodyguard. I liked him a lot.
Was told a Reginald (Reg) Stratford used to drive for the twins sometimes, must have been early on in their career as he moved to Cumbria and his family were born there mid 50s.
Reg was born London I believe ,, married a Bridget lowden .
Anyone heard of him?